Oh! One very important dynamic here that I forgot to mention: courage vs competence
You & I may lack the competence to actually hold the steering wheel, but our attempt at it may trigger those who ARE fully competence but are currently "out of the game" (they're sitting on the sidelines, knowing that if they try & fail, they will be punished. Or: that if they try and don't solve the problem 100%, they'll still be punished).
For those people, seeing someone less competent but courageous enough to try earnestly, and willing to take feedback / step aside when needed, may be the trigger they need to come into the arena.
It is not a very sexy role to have (to literally only serve the purpose of drawing in those who are more competent) but I think it is an honorable and important role.
> Are there valid situations where the best thing to do is nothing at all?
yes of course. Your case I think is the example. What I hope you gained from that experience is an understanding/a concrete test of your own competence.
Maybe "nothing" is incorrect now that I think about it - your options are (1) increase your own competence (2) move away from the malevolent / incompetent leader. The choice to do nothing should be taken when the trajectory you're on is good & you are happy with it.
(so the "step zero" here is understanding your individual trajectory & that of the group(s) you are attached. Upward spiral = great, enjoy and be merry. Downward spiral = take action. If you cannot, work on your ability to take action in future such cases)
----
Ultimately what I'm describing here is my algorithm (which acts as "my religion"). You are free to do as you wish. Our interface (here on the internet) is that we look at one another and see the outcomes of each other's actions, and play a game of taking & applying what is good to be part of this ongoing social evolution.
I think the reason many people don’t pay attention is because they don’t want the responsibility of it.
See problem -> Fix problem, but some problems are so vast that everyone assumes it’s someone else’s job to grab the wheel. Surely someone knows better, is better can do better… a cultural result of the “too much but not enough” generation perhaps?
In the case of the theater example you’ve paid a ticket and are expecting a show. You go in understanding that you’re participating in an exchange.
What if it’s the trolley problem and it’s just a regular Tuesday and you’re on your way to work and can’t remember if you paid your bills, but you also forgot your password and your mom is calling, but you don’t wanna talk to her because you’re scrolling TikTok and then boom no one else is doing anything to guide the ship except the ones paying attention.
So who has capacity or care enough to pay attention? People who want it, because everyone else is just giving it away. Attention farming. Engagement farming. It’s all social engineering. Existing in this is engineering a way through life.
Get through all those hurdles and then who’s left? Do you even wanna talk to those people? Are they cool to hang out with on a Tuesday and would you buy them tacos? Can they have a conversation or are they only exposition? Is there enough of a shared knowledge base to pull from that we can even relate? What makes the desire to communicate so different in each of us, and what is our urge to both expand and control it?
hmmm. most importantly, i don't immediately see how this maps to what i focus on. can you provide another analogy that uses system breakdown in a Third World country? (lol)
less importantly, in the analogy, there IS a reward for taking responsibility: the movie proceeds. and the risk is IMO negligible: if it was supposed to pause, people direct judgement and annoyance toward you. there are worse fates!
regarding your formula, i think there are often more barriers. contrary to what Troy said about physics being the only law, getting something done (grabbing the steering wheel) *in a complex human society* can be a big challenge - *even* if you're competent and *even* is no manager is present/competent. in a hunter-gatherer tribe, anyone can notice a hole in a roof and wander into the nearby forest to fetch more vegetation to patch it. but if you don't like how the stoplights work at some intersection, you can't just alter it - definitely not straightaway, maybe not at all. (rather: you COULD, but you'd get punished and someone would undo it. manmade laws ARE pretty "real") (... until they're not, and then you get both pros AND cons...)
1) The movie theatre staff are in charge of & in control of the space. A decision was in the power of those in charge, but no one affected knew they could do anything about it/chose not to, until someone did, and it changed
2) A broken door in a coffee shop causes complaints for years, everyone has theories about why it cannot be fixed. Many attempt to reach the people in charge of making this decision, but they don't know how to identify who is in charge, so they fail (worse, they think the failure was on the malicious people in charge!) - until one person correctly identifies the person in charge, and it is fixed
3) Every problem in front of us here has either (A) someone in charge, or (B) no one in charge
If no one is in charge, you can actualize your will with no resistance (other than the natural resistance of matter & physics). If someone is in charge, you will find them, and you will either negotiate with them or compete/fight.
> can you provide another analogy that uses system breakdown in a Third World country?
Find out who is in charge of your food supply & make sure they are doing OK. If they are not doing OK, and you are capable of seeing this, then it is now your responsibility. If I can get one person in every network to do this, then we're done. The org chart is complete. (And then the real work begins, or we can actually finally assess the full picture)
Think of it as a budget/audit of spaceship earth.
> (grabbing the steering wheel) *in a complex human society* can be a big challeng
It's not that complicated anymore. I'm telling you the door to the control room is open. All we have to do is walk over that way right now. September 4th
Have been in a situation where people involved were either incompetent or malevolent.
So I grabbed the steering wheel but it turns out I didn't have the necessary competence either.
Are there valid situations where the best thing to do is nothing at all? Or how does one recognize that beforehand?
Oh! One very important dynamic here that I forgot to mention: courage vs competence
You & I may lack the competence to actually hold the steering wheel, but our attempt at it may trigger those who ARE fully competence but are currently "out of the game" (they're sitting on the sidelines, knowing that if they try & fail, they will be punished. Or: that if they try and don't solve the problem 100%, they'll still be punished).
For those people, seeing someone less competent but courageous enough to try earnestly, and willing to take feedback / step aside when needed, may be the trigger they need to come into the arena.
It is not a very sexy role to have (to literally only serve the purpose of drawing in those who are more competent) but I think it is an honorable and important role.
> Are there valid situations where the best thing to do is nothing at all?
yes of course. Your case I think is the example. What I hope you gained from that experience is an understanding/a concrete test of your own competence.
Maybe "nothing" is incorrect now that I think about it - your options are (1) increase your own competence (2) move away from the malevolent / incompetent leader. The choice to do nothing should be taken when the trajectory you're on is good & you are happy with it.
(so the "step zero" here is understanding your individual trajectory & that of the group(s) you are attached. Upward spiral = great, enjoy and be merry. Downward spiral = take action. If you cannot, work on your ability to take action in future such cases)
----
Ultimately what I'm describing here is my algorithm (which acts as "my religion"). You are free to do as you wish. Our interface (here on the internet) is that we look at one another and see the outcomes of each other's actions, and play a game of taking & applying what is good to be part of this ongoing social evolution.
🤩😍🥰
Terrifying if true.
I must figure out how I want to go about framing this
spread the good word and report back!!! 🙏
I think the reason many people don’t pay attention is because they don’t want the responsibility of it.
See problem -> Fix problem, but some problems are so vast that everyone assumes it’s someone else’s job to grab the wheel. Surely someone knows better, is better can do better… a cultural result of the “too much but not enough” generation perhaps?
In the case of the theater example you’ve paid a ticket and are expecting a show. You go in understanding that you’re participating in an exchange.
What if it’s the trolley problem and it’s just a regular Tuesday and you’re on your way to work and can’t remember if you paid your bills, but you also forgot your password and your mom is calling, but you don’t wanna talk to her because you’re scrolling TikTok and then boom no one else is doing anything to guide the ship except the ones paying attention.
So who has capacity or care enough to pay attention? People who want it, because everyone else is just giving it away. Attention farming. Engagement farming. It’s all social engineering. Existing in this is engineering a way through life.
Get through all those hurdles and then who’s left? Do you even wanna talk to those people? Are they cool to hang out with on a Tuesday and would you buy them tacos? Can they have a conversation or are they only exposition? Is there enough of a shared knowledge base to pull from that we can even relate? What makes the desire to communicate so different in each of us, and what is our urge to both expand and control it?
hmmm. most importantly, i don't immediately see how this maps to what i focus on. can you provide another analogy that uses system breakdown in a Third World country? (lol)
less importantly, in the analogy, there IS a reward for taking responsibility: the movie proceeds. and the risk is IMO negligible: if it was supposed to pause, people direct judgement and annoyance toward you. there are worse fates!
regarding your formula, i think there are often more barriers. contrary to what Troy said about physics being the only law, getting something done (grabbing the steering wheel) *in a complex human society* can be a big challenge - *even* if you're competent and *even* is no manager is present/competent. in a hunter-gatherer tribe, anyone can notice a hole in a roof and wander into the nearby forest to fetch more vegetation to patch it. but if you don't like how the stoplights work at some intersection, you can't just alter it - definitely not straightaway, maybe not at all. (rather: you COULD, but you'd get punished and someone would undo it. manmade laws ARE pretty "real") (... until they're not, and then you get both pros AND cons...)
tell me what i'm missing :)
1) The movie theatre staff are in charge of & in control of the space. A decision was in the power of those in charge, but no one affected knew they could do anything about it/chose not to, until someone did, and it changed
2) A broken door in a coffee shop causes complaints for years, everyone has theories about why it cannot be fixed. Many attempt to reach the people in charge of making this decision, but they don't know how to identify who is in charge, so they fail (worse, they think the failure was on the malicious people in charge!) - until one person correctly identifies the person in charge, and it is fixed
3) Every problem in front of us here has either (A) someone in charge, or (B) no one in charge
If no one is in charge, you can actualize your will with no resistance (other than the natural resistance of matter & physics). If someone is in charge, you will find them, and you will either negotiate with them or compete/fight.
> can you provide another analogy that uses system breakdown in a Third World country?
Find out who is in charge of your food supply & make sure they are doing OK. If they are not doing OK, and you are capable of seeing this, then it is now your responsibility. If I can get one person in every network to do this, then we're done. The org chart is complete. (And then the real work begins, or we can actually finally assess the full picture)
Think of it as a budget/audit of spaceship earth.
> (grabbing the steering wheel) *in a complex human society* can be a big challeng
It's not that complicated anymore. I'm telling you the door to the control room is open. All we have to do is walk over that way right now. September 4th